«The years 2025 to 2050 are critical for the future of humanity and the planet»

Today, I am delighted to meet Beris Gwynne,*)  former diplomat, aid official and NGO executive, Founder of Incitāre International. In this interview she shares insights and learnings from her 35 years career in the dynamic relationship between the private and non-profit / public sector which she sees as the most critical factor in determining the success or otherwise of efforts to achieve Sustainable Development and Climate Goals. We delve into the key differences both bring to the table, explore the complementary strengths both bring at the table and might learn from each other, and discuss whether the distinction between profit and non-profit is meaningful as we look toward the future.

Thank you very much for taking the time for this "Human Facts meets". As companies increasingly focus on solving social issues alongside maximizing profit, they venture into areas traditionally managed by governments and nonprofits. This trend will likely lead to more partnerships between businesses, the public sector, and nonprofits. Therefore, it might be useful to explore what businesses and nonprofits can learn from each other to facilitate this shift successfully.

1. Before we dive into this core question, can you tell us a little bit about your background and what experiences in the nonprofit environment have most "shaped" your perspective today?

Beris:It is a pleasure. Thank you very much for such a generous introduction. My career began with the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs, later renamed the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

In 1989, I moved into the Australian Aid Program, an independent and professional organization at the time. This shift allowed me to reflect on the short-term nature of political decision-making and its impact on international relations and aid. During these years,  I realized the importance of business as a partner in both foreign affairs and aid, as a driver of economic growth, but regretted the primacy of political expediency and commercial interests and modest commitments for development from the bottom up.

Joining World Vision Australia in 1994, I observed the impacts of competing agendas and power dynamics on  NGOs' effectiveness. This led me to focus on the importance of partnerships and the need for a systemic reset in how we collaborate globally and framed my contribution in subsequent roles with a privately funded Australian think-tank and an inter-governmental network based in Sweden.

In 2008, I was appointed Vice-President of Global Accountability for World Vision International in Geneva, taking up the role of Senior WVI representative to the United Nations and Director of the Geneva Office in 2011.  This allowed access to experience and learning at a global level and framed my decision post-retirement to leverage the acquired knowledge and multi-stakeholder networks to  apply futures thinking to envision plausible scenarios for global cooperation, work from plausible futures to design and construct new ways of working and being and develop new measures for risk assessment and performance to incentivize and accelerate the necessary changes in attitude and behaviour.

I've concluded that NGOs, governments, and businesses each have limitations in addressing global challenges and cannot achieve what is needed alone.

A collective effort is needed, asking  better questions and developing long-term solutions.

2. What have been your most counterintuitive or surprising learnings working with non-profits?

Beris: I've realized that many people, including myself, are or were locked into superficial patterns of thinking without understanding recent history and the factors contributing to our current situation. Historically, community-supervised transactions aimed for social harmony, but colonization, globalization and digitalization have eroded these close and likely more equitable relationships. Instead of meaningful discussions, we now attend conferences with limited interaction and engage with others online rather than in person.

Raised to believe in telling the truth, I found that challenging existing structures is often unwelcome, even in forward-thinking organizations, which tend to punish dissenters. This reflects a universal human tendency, for those at the top, to resist change in order to  maintain superiority. Real change requires courage and a willingness to continue asking difficult questions, despite potential backlash.

I've also found that offering valuable  alternatives and insights isn’t remunerated as an current systems demand self-financed, commercially viable proposals, a challenge for those proposing a course correction and typically without resources . While business and NGOs can learn from each other, they have unique roles that must be respected within partnerships, requiring active mediation and a shared understanding of collaboration to achieve agreed goals..

3. Based on your experience and in your opinion: What's the main difference between profit and non-profit (not in theory, but in reality) - or more provocatively formulated: are there still any differences in the age of sustainability where we see both sectors moving closer and closer together?

Beris: I would first highlight the challenges of communication and perception within and between sectors. When I moved from the Foreign Affairs Department to AUSAID, and then to an NGO, I noticed that my insights were not as highly valued  because of changes in my position.

On the latter, I argue that NGOs also need to generate a surplus for sustainability but their purpose is more likely to be for the benefit of deserving clients  (rather than “beneficiaries”) not to distribute profits to shareholders as determined by a US Court over 100 years ago.

That said,

neither is immune to abuse of systems for personal advantage

although my experience suggests that there is no basis for comparison between the volumes of diversion  involved in the small percentage of funding raised and/or distributed through NGOs and those on record in global business and finance.

I believe we should redefine economic relationships to prioritize the satisfaction of basic human needs over luxury for the few and with others,  envision a new business model where risk, purpose, and benefits are shared more equitably, focusing on human and environmental well-being over wealth accumulation long-term. Current systems don’t properly value the unique contributions of NGOs, especially in among the less advantaged majority population – without whose participation, global goals are unlikely to be met. I advocate for collaboration, recognizing the substantial yet valid differences between sectors. One world or none.

My commitment is to work with others to show that alternative models already exist and can be implemented, at scale. I believe that NGOs, better than business, understand and invest in relationships, the former on the basis of better and more inclusive decision making, the latter because long-established  management principles, like fostering a happy and engaged workforce, are known to increase worker satisfaction and profitability.

But all generalisations are invidious.

4. What do you wish that business could  / should learn from the non - profit sector – and vice versa?

Beris: I believe we need all sectors to acknowledge and act on calls for radical change and just transitions, not dismiss the transformational agenda on ideological or religious or semantic grounds.There's enough, evidence to show that “first world”  attitudes and actions have often caused more harm than good. It's crucial for business and finance to become more self-aware and learn from history, recognizing the flaws in our current capitalist model that need correcting.

We might be forced to work together more closely but will fail if we continue current practices.

We must develop new business models to utilize known technologies in areas like food production, land rehabilitation, reforesting, and biodiversity at scale from the disparagingly named “bottom” up. The challenge is to mobilize finance that distributes costs and benefits more equitably re-writing the laws and regulations that put profit maximization ahead of the obligation to deliver value to society globally.

These are the issues I would like to see discussed at this year’s “Building Bridges Week” – to ensure that the right kinds of bridges are being built, with the right partners, for the right reasons and in the right places.

5. On the other hand, what would you wish that non-profits learn from business side? Just in three quick points, maybe what comes to your mind the other way round?

Beris: I believe NGOs need to be less self-important and avoid assuming the moral high ground, which can imply superiority. We must recognize that others have different opinions and also believe they are right.

Volunteerism is great but not a sustainable business model. NGO management of volunteers is scrutinized on the basis of various codes of conduct but can and should be monetized at both ends of the supply chain.  

Self-awareness and future-thinking strategies are crucial.

NGOs need to re-set their marketing and communications, embracing new opportunities for partnering beyond aid and philanthropy. It can no longer be about persuading privileged people to donate, it’s about up-ending the system, capitalizing  on their collective assets (local knowledge, experience, networks, and relationships). It's about adopting better business practices, including digital innovations to reduce bureaucracy and  reduce transaction costs, but also about transparency and addressing internal issues.

Marketing imperatives drive competition at the expense of collective voice and critical mass.

They should also not disguise the challenges of working in resource-poor communities or overshadow the need for accountability.

My final plea is for leading NGOs to guard the balance between the growing need for humanitarian response and the impossible dream of an end of an era shift that leads, urgently, to more sustainable, more equitable futures for people and nature, coordinated, multi-stakeholder strategies and robust plans for implementation. The years 2025 to 2050 are critical for the future of humanity and the planet.

6. My last question relates to your previous point about needing new business models. Could the nonprofit-profit distinction become obsolete in the age of CSR and ESG? As a follow-up, what new types of entities might emerge? Any ideas?

Beris: Your question brings up an important point about the value of soft skills and the need for honesty about negative behaviors. To truly evolve, we need to recognize the monetary value of enabling brokering skills and allocate resources accordingly..

We need to challenge outdated laws that perpetuate injustice and revisit risk assessment metrics, considering imminent risks for all humanity, not just short term risks for individual businesses and their wealthy shareholders. The notion of accepting a catastrophic, Malthusian future is morally unacceptable; we must influence and manage the challenges ahead.

Experimentation is key. Public funding once drove medical research, now dominated by private wealth drawing on knowledge from indigenous communities with few resources. Our extractive approach must stop, shifting towards restoring and rebuilding environments and livelihoods. This requires shared risk and mutual accountability. 

There is no room for image laundering or green washing in either camp so, yes, we could look forward to the day when profit/non profit distinctions are not measured by self reporting or  token recognition of the need for mutuality in economies and in relationships, but by collective and transparent measurement of accelerated progress to a more equitable and more sustainable world.

There are already examples proven or currently being tested for alternative governance, management and financing models that serve at scale blended finance and impact investing initiatives for the world’s majorities, young people, women and the less advantaged.

7. Is there anything I forgot to ask you? Or in other words, is there anything you would like to leave our audience with from your wonderfully extensive wisdom and experiences?

Beris: Individuals in business and in the not for profit sector can take the initiative and be the leaders we need to be without waiting for permission from one another. We are all stake-holders. Governments, businesses and NGOs need to learn to cooperate competitively in a race for leadership and optimal impact.  

Our collective voice and examples of how a fairer economy can lead to a happier world are weakened when we work in isolation. Collaborating through forums like this can plant seeds for positive change.

Thank you for letting me be part of this process. I encourage anyone who can support the ideas of the charter or wants to discuss innovative financing and sustainable investing to reach out.

Thank you, Beris, for your time and insight. It's been a pleasure to explore this complex topic with such a passionate expert. Your many years of professional experience are a deep reservoir of learning and certainly provide guidance and points of reference for many as they we move forward.

*) Background of Beris Gwynne: Beris began her career as an Australian diplomat, with postings in Vietnam, Poland, Mexico and Nauru. She joined the Australian “aid” agency in 1989. Subsequent executive appointments in the not for profit sector included The Foundation for Development Cooperation (Brisbane), The Global Water Partnership Organisation in Stockholm and World Vision International in Geneva. In 2016, Beris created an open platform for collaboration named “Incitāre” to encourage fresh thinking and mobilise practical action to accelerate the achievement of sustainable development and humanitarian goals. She has post graduate qualifications in International Law and International Relations.

Beris and I met first  in London in 2017 at a workshop on metrics and stakeholder relationships organized  by the Relational Thinking Network - one of the most promising approaches to assessing stakeholder relationships I’ve seen.  At the workshop, we discovered our shared passion and mission for focusing on the relational aspect of management. Since then, we’ve had many inspiring conversations across Switzerland.
I appreciate that she joined a select group of international experts invited by Human Facts educational initiative Partnering Leadership Academy, to establish a Partnering Corporation Charter, which can be freely downloaded from our website.

Kindly note: With this Human Facts meets Interview format, we aim to give people the opportunity to reflect on issues that are close to their hearts, and to give their personal opinion based on their unique and subjective lifelong professional experiences, independent of their professional role or the organization they usually represent.